Dealer used wrong ATF

[obscurotron]

Took my '04 in for a tranny flush and some other fluid changes. For the record, it was Toyota 101 in Redwood City, CA.

Go to pick up the truck and I'm reading the paperwork, under ATF it says "18Q Dex 2".

So I coyly ask the service advisor what kind of ATF was used and he proudly says "Dexron II, of course!".

Me: "It takes T-IV."

The looks were priceless, so they pulled the truck back in and flushed it with 18 quarts T-IV (I stood there and watched and counted). So far, it shifts smooth and I don't think I hear anything abnormal in the tranny. Any idea if there will be any long-term effects, despite the fact that the truck didn't even get driven 1 mile with the wrong ATF? Everything is documented, but I'd rather not have to get a new tranny in a few thousand miles.

They gave me a freebie to go have it flushed again next week (going to do it). But if I'm screwed anyway, I won't bother.

[85ATC350x]

Flush it again. They are in no way compatible. We had a rav4 come in a few years ago that Iffy lube flushed with dexron and destroyed the trans.

[adkfreeridex]

i went to the stealership to buy moly grease for the double cardan joints and some drain plug gaskets, they didn't sell the grease (big deal..) so i asked what kind the techs use...she brought out a tube of generic bearing grease...i asked if this is the only kind they use, and she said yes. i told her that on the tacoma drive line, two types of grease are supposed to be used according the the fsm. she was stumped and confirmed it was the only kind of grease in the garage. i left.

moral, you cant even trust the dealership to do a good job...

[obscurotron]

Originally Posted by 85ATC350x

Flush it again. They are in no way compatible. We had a rav4 come in a few years ago that Iffy lube flushed with dexron and destroyed the trans.

Explain something to me, if you know. The A340F used to use Dex-III(II) from what I can tell in the 2002 4Runner (same deal as a Tacoma). In '03 MY with the same tranny, they went to the T-IV fluid.

So exactly how damaging is this screw up if the transmissions used to use the D-II stuff, and were changed over to the T-IV?

[Kyota]

Flush it again.

DO IT!

Those tranny's take somewhere between 2 and 3 GALLONS of tranny fluid.

I wouldnt think they are that different, II, III, IV but they do have differences. Otherwise the MFG would recommend D-II.

I recall the FSM on these tranny's says D-III or greater or soemthing. But D-III. I have D-IV in mine and hasnt given issues for 6k miles.

[obscurotron]

The dry fill on an A340F is 11.7 quarts. I personally watched the tech dump 18 quarts of T-IV into the flushing machine when he re-did it properly. So that works out to 4.5 gallons.

Since they're offering to do it for free, I'm going to take it back Tuesday and have it done, and I plan to take them up on the offer of a loaner car, too.

Originally Posted by Kyota

Flush it again.

DO IT!

Those tranny's take somewhere between 2 and 3 GALLONS of tranny fluid.

I wouldnt think they are that different, II, III, IV but they do have differences. Otherwise the MFG would recommend D-II.

I recall the FSM on these tranny's says D-III or greater or soemthing. But D-III. I have D-IV in mine and hasnt given issues for 6k miles.

[jester_motorsports]

Originally Posted by obscurotron

Took my '04 in for a tranny flush and some other fluid changes. For the record, it was Toyota 101 in Redwood City, CA.

Go to pick up the truck and I'm reading the paperwork, under ATF it says "18Q Dex 2".

So I coyly ask the service advisor what kind of ATF was used and he proudly says "Dexron II, of course!".

Me: "It takes T-IV."

The looks were priceless, so they pulled the truck back in and flushed it with 18 quarts T-IV (I stood there and watched and counted). So far, it shifts smooth and I don't think I hear anything abnormal in the tranny. Any idea if there will be any long-term effects, despite the fact that the truck didn't even get driven 1 mile with the wrong ATF? Everything is documented, but I'd rather not have to get a new tranny in a few thousand miles.

They gave me a freebie to go have it flushed again next week (going to do it). But if I'm screwed anyway, I won't bother.

Actually, it depends on what truck you have. Do you have a 2wd truck or a 4wd truck? If 2wd, is it a PreRunner or just a regular mini? If you have a mini with the 2RZ, then it actually takes Dexron II or III.

The Prerunners and 4wd trucks with 3RZ's and 5VZ's and auto trannies take T-IV.

[bard]

Flush it again and keep the paperwork stating that they used the wrong stuff in a safe place in case you ever need it.

[jester_motorsports]

Originally Posted by bard

Flush it again and keep the paperwork stating that they used the wrong stuff in a safe place in case you ever need it.

The OP needs to let us know what kind of truck he has though. He may not have the wrong fluid if he's got a 2RZ mini.

[obscurotron]

Originally Posted by jester_motorsports

The OP needs to let us know what kind of truck he has though. He may not have the wrong fluid if he's got a 2RZ mini.

It is a V6 4x4 with the a340f tranny. It does require the T-IV fluid since it is a 2004. The 2002 with the same drivetrain takes dexron ii or iii. So far with about 10 miles on it it is ok. Still plan to get the 2nd freebie flush done Tuesday.

[Kyota]

Flushing machines cylce the fluid til it comes out the color of the new stuff-----if I understand them correctly. So he didnt literally put that much in. But pretty much 3 gallons is it.

[obscurotron]

Originally Posted by Kyota

Flushing machines cylce the fluid til it comes out the color of the new stuff-----if I understand them correctly. So he didnt literally put that much in. But pretty much 3 gallons is it.

Color probably wouldn't have been the right thing to gauge by. Brand new Dexron III/Toyota D-II looks identical to Type T-IV.

Which reminds me. Can you even *get* Dexron-II anymore? I know Dex-III supercedes it, but the invoice says "Dex 2". All I saw at the auto parts store were various +3/+4's, Mercon and Dex-III.

I'm just trying to figure out WTF he actually put in there.

[85ATC350x]

Originally Posted by obscurotron

Explain something to me, if you know. The A340F used to use Dex-III(II) from what I can tell in the 2002 4Runner (same deal as a Tacoma). In '03 MY with the same tranny, they went to the T-IV fluid.

So exactly how damaging is this screw up if the transmissions used to use the D-II stuff, and were changed over to the T-IV?

Due to the fact it wasnt a long term thing you should be fine. When alot of the vehicles started to use t-IV we got a second flush machine at work just for t-IV. We were told that vehicles that require dexron could use t-iv but not the opposite and weve seen that doesnt work as i stated. What i believe is the old rumor about synthetic oil, if you switch back to reg oil you might have a problem etc. Once all the seals, clutches etc are used to t-iv using dexron causes them to slip etc. t-iv is slightly different in color and smell than dexron.

[Kyota]

I was reffering to a typical change. Is putting the wrong fluid in typical? Not really... Like motor oil, tranny fluid looks like shit at the end of its life. Thats what I was reffering to.

The old and new fluid is constantly mixing in the pan so thats about the only way to gauge it without pulling the trannny pan off (which blows...) and stickin some funky 'tube' over the pick-up (which I dont even think exist).


I think all the newer III and IV are suppose to be good for a II substitute.

[jester_motorsports]

Originally Posted by obscurotron

I'm just trying to figure out WTF he actually put in there.

If this was done at a "normal" Toyota dealer, and ATF was used vs T-IV, then he used p/n 00718-ATF00 which is Dexron III ATF vs p/n 00279-000T4-01 which is Toyota Type T-IV fluid like he should have.

[obscurotron]

Originally Posted by jester_motorsports

If this was done at a "normal" Toyota dealer, and ATF was used vs T-IV, then he used p/n 00718-ATF00 which is Dexron III ATF vs p/n 00279-000T4-01 which is Toyota Type T-IV fluid like he should have.

Interesting. For my 2006 flush, it shows T-IV part number.

For this flush, I noticed the 'parts' line doesn't have the part #, just lists *9* quarts of ATF, even though the job description says the tech put in 18qt.

I think it is safe to say that Toyota 101 is either a rip off joint, or worse. After I get my freebie re-flush on Tuesday, that's it for them. Not taking my truck or my wife's Matrix there again.

[jester_motorsports]

Originally Posted by obscurotron

Interesting. For my 2006 flush, it shows T-IV part number.

For this flush, I noticed the 'parts' line doesn't have the part #, just lists *9* quarts of ATF, even though the job description says the tech put in 18qt.

I think it is safe to say that Toyota 101 is either a rip off joint, or worse. After I get my freebie re-flush on Tuesday, that's it for them. Not taking my truck or my wife's Matrix there again.

Here's another scenario that could EASILY be the case. For transmissions, we use regular bottled Toyota fluids...part numbers listed above. However, for differentials that use transmission fluid, we use a bulk ATF of the proper variety. Now if it's a front-wheel drive vehicle where the transmission and front diff share the same fluid, we use bottled fluid. The main reason we do this is for a slight bit of cost savings. The bottled fluid is theoretically "better", thus why we use it in transmissions. The bulk fluid is cheaper, yet still perfectly fine for differentials. It's billed accordingly though. We don't charge the higher bottled price or anything when the bulk fluid is charged out. It's all billed properly and actually saves everyone a little bit of money. Bulk fluid is like $2 per quart vs around $5 per quart for bottled. Maybe at that particular dealership they purchase and use bulk ATF and bulk Type T-IV? It's certainly possible.

I certainly wouldn't classify this dealership as a "ripoff joint", even if they did use the wrong fluid. People make mistakes, even at dealerships. Once you pointed out the supposed error, what was their recourse? That's how I would determine the status of the place.

[obscurotron]

My recourse was that they reflushed the tranny right then and there, and are giving me a 2nd freebie flush tomorrow.

Of course if the guys was going crazy with bulk fluid, I shudder to think what's in my front and rear diffs and transfer case.

Originally Posted by jester_motorsports

Here's another scenario that could EASILY be the case. For transmissions, we use regular bottled Toyota fluids...part numbers listed above. However, for differentials that use transmission fluid, we use a bulk ATF of the proper variety. Now if it's a front-wheel drive vehicle where the transmission and front diff share the same fluid, we use bottled fluid. The main reason we do this is for a slight bit of cost savings. The bottled fluid is theoretically "better", thus why we use it in transmissions. The bulk fluid is cheaper, yet still perfectly fine for differentials. It's billed accordingly though. We don't charge the higher bottled price or anything when the bulk fluid is charged out. It's all billed properly and actually saves everyone a little bit of money. Bulk fluid is like $2 per quart vs around $5 per quart for bottled. Maybe at that particular dealership they purchase and use bulk ATF and bulk Type T-IV? It's certainly possible.

I certainly wouldn't classify this dealership as a "ripoff joint", even if they did use the wrong fluid. People make mistakes, even at dealerships. Once you pointed out the supposed error, what was their recourse? That's how I would determine the status of the place.