4.4 V8 twin turbo diesel...

[calamaridog]

See post in Landcruiser section also. Could it be that the new diesel V8 we've been hearing about will be this one?

<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>

Sounds good, where do I sign up?

[Chief]

Originally Posted by calamaridog

<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>

That won't compete with Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Need at least 350 hp and 500+ ft lbs of torque to play with the big dogs.....

[CMB1998]

Originally Posted by Chief

That won't compete with Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Need at least 350 hp and 500+ ft lbs of torque to play with the big dogs.....

I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris

[ARB1977]

Originally Posted by calamaridog

See post in Landcruiser section also. Could it be that the new diesel V8 we've been hearing about will be this one?

<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>

Sounds good, where do I sign up?

Thats pretty damn cool, man i cant wait but why a twin turbo? Single turbo diesels get better numbers than that but anyway its a diesel. Does toyota make their own diesel engines?

[ARB1977]

Originally Posted by CMB1998

I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris

After reading your post that makes sence now. Smaller engine=better reliability.

[ONEWAY]

Originally Posted by TRDUSA2002

Thats pretty damn cool, man i cant wait but why a twin turbo? Single turbo diesels get better numbers than that but anyway its a diesel. Does toyota make their own diesel engines?

Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers . Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's .

[ARB1977]

Originally Posted by ONEWAY

Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers . Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's .

A high reving small block diesel, yea that sounds cool.

[bluetaco]

Originally Posted by ONEWAY

Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers . Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's .

it has to do with low end torque under boost...one turbo to spool in on the lower RPM and help engine torque then an exhaust turbo to clean out the combustion chamber as you progress in the RPM and refeed the intake side turbo..
...the engine numbers as far as BHP and BTQ are peak numbers and not useful numbers to compare domestic trucks to foreign trucks diesels (Like the V10 diesel in the VW Tourage) than the numbers thru out the RPM range...the use and drivability in the diesel engine design are totally different animals...
I have always heard Toyota built Diesels are some of the best engineered around...I remember reading the Isusu Duramax ( now GM Duramax) was adapted from an old school Toyota Marine Diesel design...but I definitely haven't kept on top of all their developments since there is likely nothing coming state side until the Diesel fuel sulfur content goes down and emissions standards change!

http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol...ines/dcat.html the BMW Mini Cooper has used Toyota built diesel engines like this over in the European market!

[calamaridog]

I don't know what to tell you. It's not just about "rated" numbers. A good engine/transmission package makes all the difference and reliability is #1.

I'm sure they will produce a competative product...

[surlynkid]

428 lb-ft. whatcha gonna do with that? play in the sand box? get a real diesel. my 2005 CTD has 325 HP and 610 lb-ft. that is a real motor. i could bomb it and really get some huge numbers. with 428 lb-ft, toyota will never break into the big truck market.

[bluetaco]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

428 lb-ft. whatcha gonna do with that? play in the sand box? get a real diesel. my 2005 CTD has 325 HP and 610 lb-ft. that is a real motor. i could bomb it and really get some huge numbers. with 428 lb-ft, toyota will never break into the big truck market.

Toyota is in the big truck market over seas...

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_53495/newsarticle.html

You know Ford is the market leader in U.S. passenger "Big truck" sales and that didn't stop Toyota from overtaking them in total vehicle sales!!!

Toyota has plans for a Hybrid electric for the Tundra when the new San Antonio plant comes in to service... the rumor is that the electric engines will carry 1000 lb ft torque ratings and that is thru out the RPM range 0-what ever RPM, not peak like your punny 610 lb ft Cummings
...where the hell can you find real driving conditions where you actually get the RPM up high enough for that motor to generate 610 lb ft...you don't!!

Don't get me wrong domestic turbo diesels (even though Cummings and Duramax are not domestic) are good trucks...but there are better things on the horizon!!

http://www.atsdiesel.com/
BTW ATS performance diesel is local to me...you want to see what a performance diesel does to a drive train watch them blow stuff up at Bandimeer speed way...they can make 700+ hp and 1300 lb ft and they get it down to the ground better than any other performance diesel company but they sure go thru a lot of drive train parts!
That will be Toyotas limitation creating reliable drive trains for all the torque they will be producing!

if you play with numbers you better be good at math!!
comparing peak engine TQ and HP numbers is about as useful as comparing knife blade lengths on a butter knife...bigger is not always better!
PS I am not attacking you...just pushing home a point! maybe a little too hard!

[ricqik]

It seems some are jumping to conclusion too soon. Some are comparing this diesel to larger 3/4ton-1ton truck diesels. For all we know this new diesel may only be for the 1/2ton tundra, if it is it easily outclasses the competition. Don't forget the 400hp+ 700lbtq+ diesel mentioned some months ago, that could be the diesel that'll be in the 3/4ton-1ton tundra. Everytime a toyota truck comes out with class leading whatever, many are quick to compare it to other larger(3/4-1ton) and not even in the same class trucks. The tundra is a 1/2ton truck when it was introduced and see how many domestic owners were quick to claim their 3/4ton or 1ton can do better. We're still waiting on some word about the 3/4-1ton tundra, until then this looks like a 1/2ton tundra diesel. Think about it, this same diesel is gonna be in the landcruiser and sequoia too. Those two SUV are 1/2ton class. I'm sure the 3/4-1ton will have a larger more powerful diesel.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by bluetaco

Toyota is in the big truck market over seas...

...where the hell can you find real driving conditions where you actually get the RPM up high enough for that motor to generate 610 lb ft...you don't!!

That will be Toyotas limitation creating reliable drive trains for all the torque they will be producing!

and what good does an overseas toyota do me unless i want to move overseas?

have you ever seen the torque curve as to when it hits 610 lb-ft? obviously not. it is flat from about 1600-2900. i bet i'll have a really hard time getting to 1600 rpm.

[SilverTaco]

Also power to weight ratio comes in. Rams,250-350's, and 2500 hd's are beast. they got to weigh close to 7-8k?

[Kyota]

Yeah, they probably weigh around that.

Lets see, a little more torque to displacement ratios...
-4.4 Toyota @ 428lb/ft = 9.727lb/ft or torque per 100cc's.
-5.9 Cummins @ 600lb/ft = 10.169lb/ft of torque per 100cc's.

Considering Toyota isn't as dedicated to diesels as Cummins is, it isn't that bad. And isn't the Ford Power Stroke like 6.7l or something and not even the torque of the Cummins?

[surlynkid]

the issue is not power to weight or power to cc. to compete in this market, you need to have well over 300 HP and nothing under 600 lb-ft of torque anymore. that is just where the market has gone. it needs to haul 15000 pounds, etc. i am sure the toyota will be a great truck (i have two and wished toyota had somethign to compete with my CTD), but if what you need is a serious 3/4 or 1 ton towing beast then it needs to be heavy and be able to move houses. even the Hino diesel has to be something 8 liters to get anywhere near the right power. it will indeed be interesting to see where toyota takes this. they need a solid axle rig with front coils, and a full floating rear with at least a 10.50" ring gear.

[GOT COPE?]

Originally Posted by CMB1998

I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris

Ford diesels are badass, i use'em everyday at work. They can pull.

[Bnorm]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

the issue is not power to weight or power to cc. to compete in this market, you need to have well over 300 HP and nothing under 600 lb-ft of torque anymore. that is just where the market has gone. it needs to haul 15000 pounds, etc. i am sure the toyota will be a great truck (i have two and wished toyota had somethign to compete with my CTD), but if what you need is a serious 3/4 or 1 ton towing beast then it needs to be heavy and be able to move houses. even the Hino diesel has to be something 8 liters to get anywhere near the right power. it will indeed be interesting to see where toyota takes this. they need a solid axle rig with front coils, and a full floating rear with at least a 10.50" ring gear.

When Toyota releases it 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck, I'm sure the numbers will be comparable. But right now, we're talking about numbers for a 1/2 ton truck, so let's stay there. As far as 1/2 ton trucks are concerned, I don't see anything around that compares with Toyota's numbers. The Titan and Dodge Ram 1500 make more horsepower, with more cubic inches, but the torque isn't even close. Nor does the F-150 nor the Chev/GMC 1500 come close. Toyota has them beat, with a smaller engine to boot. With a diesel, fuel efficiency will be better too. What can you say? This Tundra sounds like an excellent 1/2 ton truck to me.

[BlackMagic92]

ford deisels are ok cummins is the power house of them all try gettin 22 on the high way wiht a ford 4x4 deisel the cummins is also the most reliable and most backed by company then the 3 my aunt got her ford just 1 month after my dad got his cummins,(she was jealous) the next step they took was the six gun pack from banks both trucks have it and both have the speed loader and basically the Identical kit, the dodge is a stick the PS is a auto. when going to the norco horse show my dad had a 6,000 pound trailer with 4 horses and my aunt had a 5,000 pound horse trialer/camper with 2 horses, going up cohone pass my dad threw it in the 6 upgrade setting and hit the gas and left it in 5th gear and went up the hill at 2,000 rpms at 65 mph my aunt threw hers in 6th setting hit the gas and couldnt pull that figure. iam not dissing ford but with such big diesels they should have the power readins alittle higher. anyways back to the 4.4 i dont think toyota is going for some BRUTE FORCE ride i think they are going reliable and mpg with a suv like that and the engine i would like to see 20 in town and mayb 23-24 on highway, it would also be a great trail vehicle becuase of the torque at low rpms and reliablity deisels are known to hit 500,000 wiht out engine rebuild my 22RE has 239,003 and is on orignal tranny and engine so who knows how far that will go. i also agree the twin turbo is prolly for how smallt he displacement is it can turn two small turbos better then one big turbo also more torquew
adam

[bluetaco]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

and what good does an overseas toyota do me unless i want to move overseas?

have you ever seen the torque curve as to when it hits 610 lb-ft? obviously not. it is flat from about 1600-2900. i bet i'll have a really hard time getting to 1600 rpm.

actually it is because I have seen the actual dyno results from a brand new 2005 Cummins Turbo diesel... that I know your 610 lb ft is non existent at 1600RPM in fact at any RPM, like the little Dodge brochure states...in the real world it doesn't exist, NOT stock at least and NOT outside a climate controlled room, engine dyno results from the manufacture are not REAL WORLD and they are always best case scenarios...

you can spout factory figures all you want...I'm sure that imaginary 610 lb ft is more than enough to haul what even trailer you need it to pull and you are perfectly happy with the truck you are paying for...
...but I know about million other trucks with smaller imaginary numbers in comparison that will do every thing yours does and then some !

read some of the other posts in this thread...maybe you should spend less money on that "610 lb ft" turbo diesel and more on buying a clue!

But you know if you are willing to spend more money you are bound to win something... like the emptiest pockets award!
what does 610 lb ft torque translate to? Real world...would the difference between ~482lb ft and ~610 lb ft keep me from hauling, well most anything you can legally or reasonably haul with a passenger class vehicle! answer is no!!

But don't worry the majority of consumers follow the same line of thought you do so maybe that 1000 lb ft rating Toyota potentially has on the horizon might translate to real world dollars for them and a shinny big pockets award!

keep rolling those eyes eventually they will uncross and you can see straight!

[bluetaco]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

the issue is not power to weight or power to cc. to compete in this market, you need to have well over 300 HP and nothing under 600 lb-ft of torque anymore. that is just where the market has gone. it needs to haul 15000 pounds, etc. i am sure the toyota will be a great truck (i have two and wished toyota had somethign to compete with my CTD), but if what you need is a serious 3/4 or 1 ton towing beast then it needs to be heavy and be able to move houses. even the Hino diesel has to be something 8 liters to get anywhere near the right power. it will indeed be interesting to see where toyota takes this. they need a solid axle rig with front coils, and a full floating rear with at least a 10.50" ring gear.

that market has been done to death...non of the big boys are really profiting in it...they needed government intervention to get sales up for them to even break into the profit range!

300 HP 600 lb ft, haul 15000lbs... I know of no less that a hundred cases of owners of heavy duty trucks and only know about a dozen that ever haul 15000lbs trailers...the tax cut you get from owning a large truck or SUV was a greater consideration than the actual performance numbers!

Toyota might have had a greater stake in that market if they could import their diesel trucks with out such hugh tariffs...and import cost...Isuzu was in the same boat...and the Duramax engine they created would have had a different home then at GM potentially!

Toyota does market research better than anyone at the moment..they are very close to being more profitable than even GM... usually what they bring to the table is not to dominate the market but take a piece of the market...

You know the single rail injection that Cummins is using on the new engine in your truck is a technology Toyota has had in use for a longer period of time...they just can't/couldn't bring it to the US in a timely manor because of business limitations...competitive advantage is not in their favor nor does their market research show that it is a future market to be in I am venturing to say!

smaller Diesel engines are more in line with the future needs of the country...hardly anyone drives a heavy duty truck for daily use...but there will be a potential market for daily driven diesels as biodiesel and other alternative fuel technologies emerge that will create a market Toyota can take advantage of!

[96Toy]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

428 lb-ft. whatcha gonna do with that? play in the sand box? get a real diesel. my 2005 CTD has 325 HP and 610 lb-ft. that is a real motor. i could bomb it and really get some huge numbers. with 428 lb-ft, toyota will never break into the big truck market.

325 hp and 610 ft lbs of torque thats not power thats a chevy duramax.

MY old mans 04 dodge has 395hp but 775 ft lbs of torque with CUMMINS POWER, IN-LINE 6, which out performs all chevy duramax V8 and ford power stroke V8 engines.

[surlynkid]

stock. i have not bomb'ed mine yet.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by bluetaco

keep rolling those eyes eventually they will uncross and you can see straight!

do you own any full size diesel or are you just armchair quarterbacking? please post a picture of your full size diesel truck.

paper or not, crank or rear wheels. the difference from 482 to 610 is big. you'll be sitting at the bottom of the hill while i pass everybody.

[GOT COPE?]

ford deisels are ok cummins is the power house of them all >

the '98 Cummins we have at work sux. I love all diesels Im just saying our '02 Super Duty out does it big time. I havent had the pleasure of driving the latest model Cummins. How bout a 500hp CAT diesel we have in our motorhomes? Ill see if i can find out the torque #'s.

[GOT COPE?]

Ok im Guessing its either the Cat C13 or C15 that comes in the Fleetwood American Eagle RV.

W/ the C13 - HP 335 to 525 @ 2100 rpm Torque 1450-1750 lb0ft @ 1200 rpm
and the C15 - HP 435 to 625 @ 2100 rpm Torque 1550-2050 lb0ft @ 1200 rpm

eat that Cummins. however some of these Amer. Eagle Rv's do come w/ Cummins rather than CATs. I'll get the specs from one of our techs tomorrow as I am off today.

link http://www.cattruckengines.com/OHE/index.htm

[bluetaco]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

do you own any full size diesel or are you just armchair quarterbacking? please post a picture of your full size diesel truck.

paper or not, crank or rear wheels. the difference from 482 to 610 is big. you'll be sitting at the bottom of the hill while i pass everybody.

Actually have several full size heavy duty trucks in the family...that actually are used to haul stuff...in the hardest conditions you can throw at a truck...high altitude, 6 & 7 grade mountain passes, high wind, extreme heat/cold, heavy load, uneven load, unpaved roads, etc...

I personally have no need for a large turbo diesel at this time...but have worked at a GM dealer where much of the business at the time where heavy duty new and use passenger and fleet trucks... I have first hand driving experience full spectrum Ford, Dodge and GM, most models and power train combos...I've driven a few other chassis and drive trains combos beyond the old big three as well!

My brother currently owns a F350 power stroke ..., My parents currently own a Silverado 3500, 454CU instead of a turbo diesel because dad prefers gasoline for high altitude and cold weather, My dad also has a V10 F550 for his work truck...my extended family is full of Dodge drivers, four CTD and a V10 ...plus those of friends around the race tracks, farms and ranches I visit often!
And I assure you none of them, even the 700Hp 1300 lb ft ones, are very far apart in-terms of time it takes for them to get from one place to the other or the loads they haul!

BTW I passed a '05 CTD dually on the side of the highway yesterday in the high wind, towing a car hauler trailer with four cars on it on , with smoke coming from the drive train just past the top of a hill...you are either full of crap and truly irresponsible...or haven't towed much if you are passing any one else up a real graded incline, under load on that drivetrain...you to will be on the side of the road after only 40 miles like the dude I just saw!!
...a trailer certainly can't safely take the abuse you imply, it isn't legal, especially a trailer rated for 15K lbs!!
610 lb ft in a diesel sure as hell doesn't stop any faster than 400 some lb ft (exhaust brakes can get the same PSI with either)...but you aren't getting 610 lb ft and it really doesn't feel any different because of gearing...I can gear a Taco to put down 610 lb ft of torque at 1200 RPM but why?

you sound like you have more torque than brains in the way you brag about your truck, if this is the case... FYI your transmission can't take the stress and soon following nether can that small displacement engine!!

Big displacement turbo diesel engines with lower relative power, under lower boost and steadier compression cycles... tend to last longer!!!
...the Cummins equipped dodge diesel drive train tend to go away quick if used and abused regularly (my brother worked in service at Dodge for a while why he was away from Toyota.)...why is it that I rarely see any one that relys on a Turbo Diesel to haul large loads on a regular basis keep or own one?

Just because you bought one doesn't mean you know what you are doing!!

I listen to people that know and do drive them every day...and people that modify them for a living...even if I qualify for an armchair quarterback...I am still better informed about what is going on than the sideline quarterback... especially one that hasn't see much playing time!

So, what class hitch did that truck come with?
what type and size trailer are you hauling?
how far are you hauling and under what conditions?

...I am sure it is fun for you to step on the gas in your truck...force inducted engines usually are!
just not on the way from at the gas station!!

So if Toyota can bring a Hybrid with 1000 lb ft direct drive electric motors... you will realize that 610lb ft with gobs of friction loss feels a lot closer to 428 lb ft...

...you know trains have diesel engines ...but they are used as power sources for generators making wattage for the electric motors that drive the wheels actually pulling/pushing the load!!
http://travel.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm

Sounds like Toyota might have something!!

[bluetaco]

Sorry all, If I had pictures or a digital camara right now that would have been a lot shorter...LOL!!!

just had a bunch on my mind that had to be said!

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by bluetaco

So, what class hitch did that truck come with?

i really do not care what it came with. i put a b&w turnover ball gooseneck setup in the bed for hauling. i am glad all your family has trucks and all your buddies, too. oh yeah, and everybody you work with as well. come back and see me when you pony up and own one. until then you are just another guy with no wallet and a big mouth.

[jwbronco]

Originally Posted by 96Toy

325 hp and 610 ft lbs of torque thats not power thats a chevy duramax.

MY old mans 04 dodge has 395hp but 775 ft lbs of torque with CUMMINS POWER, IN-LINE 6, which out performs all chevy duramax V8 and ford power stroke V8 engines.

a Cummins does put out 325 and 610 ft lbs from the factory without a chip or any modifications

http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/Vehi...u&adid=u&rid=u