22r vs 22re

[dougtrd]

OK, Ihave searched this forum, yota tech, and pirate but did not find the answer...

what is the difference between the 22r and 22re? is the EFI the only difference? and will all the accessories from a 22re bolt up to a 22r block?

(I have a 22re thats toast and can get a 22r long block cheap but I want the EFI)
sorry if this is a dumb question, but as I have stated before, I am new to the older stuff!!

[Kyota]

Blocks? Maybe because if the water lines that go in and out of the head to block on the surfaces may be different.

This might help. http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/...toy_motor.html

They look the same, have the same displacement, maybe e-mail LC Engineering and ask them. I think the only concern would be the water lines that go from the head to block a bunch of times through the head gasket. Take some pictures of the two and see if they match.

[ToyotaJoe84]

I have done that swap on a buddys truck and he has about 20.000 miles on it. I would just do it and start wheeling. Later Joe

[dougtrd]

So its the same block and head, just bolt the EFI stuff to it and she'll run?

[klr_toy]

Yes a 22RE is basically a 22R and everything will bolt up the same. Just make sure to get the RE block ('85 and up). You need to put your EFI cam in the head also.

[DEATHRUNNER]

I'm not entirely sure that it's that straight of a swap. I remember reading about one having oval (Squarish) exhaust holes and one having round holes. So I think headesr/exhaust manifolds copuld be different. Plus it woudl make sense about the water lines.

[fourwd1]

You just have to make sure it's a LATE 84 (9/84+) or newer 22R block.
The 22R block and head before that have different block and head dimensions.

[Kyota]

Yeah I think they were like 2mm longer or shorter.

[Kyota]

No, they heads are different. Some early RE models had the same head, but leter R and REs have different heads. One difference is exhaust ports.

[ccannon222]

The older 22r block is taller than the newer 85 plus block. It around 1/4 inch difference.

[Boheefus]

Originally Posted by ccannon222

The older 22r block is taller than the newer 85 plus block. It around 1/4 inch difference.

Chris, Jason, and all the Cannons:

I picked up an 83 mini yesterday, gonna be picking your brain in the near future

Heath

[dougtrd]

Thanks for all the input, It apparently wont be quite as easy as I had hoped...looks like I may be back to buying a reman$$$$$$$

[taco420]

for the most part the 22r and 22re are the same block and head. the one difference is that the re has a single row timing chain and the r has a much better double row chain. the intake and exhaust manifolds are inter changeable but if you use the 22r block your going to need the 22r head as well. if you want some more power, pick up a 20r head and put it on your 22r block and use the efi manifold. the 20r head has slightly higher compression and the intake track is a strait shot. toyota designed a ridge into the 22r intake track to produce more torqe but it sacraficed some much needed horse.

[taco420]

there is no later 22r with a diff head. the re replaced the r and is completely different.

[BigMudTruk]

Originally Posted by taco420

there is no later 22r with a diff head. the re replaced the r and is completely different.

You are all making confusing conflicting reports LoL!

Here's the shake down on 22RE and 22R blocks and heads. Pre 1985 22R blocks have a taller crank centerline to cylinder deck height, don't know the exact figure but its available @ lc engineerings web site under tech info, the early 22R's also ran a dome/dished piston, it had a raised ring on the top of the piston with a dish inside the ring, this is a dead giveaway if you're trying to ID an engine that has the head off of it, the post 85 block aka "laser block" had a shorter deck height and a knock sensor bung on the side of the block next to the oil filter. There are only 2 heads used on the 22R/RE the pre 85 and post 85 head, they correspond to the differing deck heights of the respective years, the early head has an open combustion chamber to accommodate the domed piston, easily ID'd by the round exhaust port with a hole above it for the air injection, the later head 85 and up (both EFI and Carb) has a kidney shaped combustion chamber for the dished pistons of the later motors, and pear shaped exhaust ports. To provide some value to the purpose of the post an early or late 22R can be swapped into an EFI truck, heater hoses may differ slightly but mostly you just swap your old stuff onto the donor engine, the swap is easier if you have a 85 or newer donor motor as they already have the knock sensor bung, but this is easily over some with a 12x1.5 tap (I think, again see lc engineering tech section under knock sensor relocation mod) you simply drill and tap a unused engine mount hole and use it to mount the knock sensor, reuse your 22re exhaust manifold, an early gasket may be required but is easy to find at any good parts store, depending on how old the donor engine is you may have to drill and tap a couple holes on the intake side to use all of your efi lower plenum bolts, but I've only run into this on 80 and older 22R heads, most have both holes drilled and tapped, even if it doesn't its only a few and you can use the intake as a drill guide and it only takes a few minutes to do. If the donor motor was a carb motor you can change out the distributor gear for the one off your old engine to remove the fuel pump eccentric or leave it alone, the fuel pump block off from your old motor will fit right in place of the existing fuel pump if its a carb motor. The swap is even easier if you want to put a carb on it as this is pretty much a in and out swap. So in summary don't go out and buy a rebuilt motor if you have a perfectly good donor motor to use, this really is an easy swap. My only suggestion would be to put in a new timing chain and gear set along with tensioner and guides before you put it in the truck, and install a new oil pump!

To recap ALL 85 and later 22R/RE long blocks are IDENTICAL! and Interchangable! Early ones can be made to fit later applications, see above!

[dougtrd]

Saaaa-weeet...thanks Big Mud, thats the info I was looking for, now if the weather will just warm up and the money tree will bloom I will be "in there like swimwear!!!!"

[BigMudTruk]

Originally Posted by dougtrd

Saaaa-weeet...thanks Big Mud, thats the info I was looking for, now if the weather will just warm up and the money tree will bloom I will be "in there like swimwear!!!!"

No problem! I just hate to see a good engine go to waste! Also if you happen to have the older version of the 22R with no knock sensor, when you change the timing set buy the 2 row set, the only thing you will have to change is the oil pump drive spline, its available from LC engineering. If you have the Laser block you're pretty much stuck with a stock set, which are fine under extreme abuse if you change them about every 70,000 miles, you can upgrade to the 2x roller in the laser block but it takes some special stuff, LC sells a kit and its pricey, I know I bought one! If you have any other questions feel free to ask!

[Full_Tilt_Fud]

hey i am working on doing this swap. my truck is a 85 with a 22re and i am swapping a 83 22r in because the re blew up. i am good to go with the exhaust because i am using my aftermarket header that is designed for either or. on my intake i have a couple questions though. 1. there is one little allen head bolt that holds the efi manifold to the re block but the r block has no place for it to thread in. do i need it i can't see where it really does any thing. 2. the intake ports on the r block look bigger than the ones on the re block so do i use an intake gaskett for the r or re? is there any thing else i am over looking? any input would be greatly appreciated....i want to make sure i get this right.

[BigMudTruk]

Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Fud

hey i am working on doing this swap. my truck is a 85 with a 22re and i am swapping a 83 22r in because the re blew up. i am good to go with the exhaust because i am using my aftermarket header that is designed for either or. on my intake i have a couple questions though. 1. there is one little allen head bolt that holds the efi manifold to the re block but the r block has no place for it to thread in. do i need it i can't see where it really does any thing. 2. the intake ports on the r block look bigger than the ones on the re block so do i use an intake gaskett for the r or re? is there any thing else i am over looking? any input would be greatly appreciated....i want to make sure i get this right.

The allen bolt is annoying I hate that bolt! You can use a gasket for an RE to see where the hole needs to go, center punch, drill and tap a hole for it if you're feeling ambitious, 12x1.25 I believe is the size, if the head on the 22R has the rest of the bolt holes to match up with the RE intake I'm not sure I'd bother, but since I dont have one here to look at I cant remember the proximity to water near that bolt hole, if there is a large gap to the next fastner that will clamp the intake to the head and there is water very near to it, it wouldnt be a bad idea to take the time to drill and tap a hole for it, if there are plenty of other fastners close to it I think I'd leave it well enough alone, and bolt it on w/o it. For intake gaskets, I'd buy an intake set for both and see which works better, an intake set is pretty cheap, so no real huge investment there. I would really recomend pulling off the oil pan, and timing cover and valve cover and putting timing chain, gears and guides in that motor before you put it in, its cheap insurance! As is an oil pump! Beware on the oil pump 85 and newer run a different pump, so be sure to get the early one, the timing chain can be upgraded to the 2 row for ultimate durability, get the oil pump drive spline from LC engineering, when you put the oil pan back on dont use a gasket just use either ultra black or ultra grey silicone, the only gaskets required for the timing chain swap is a timing cover set. When you reinstall the cover use caution not to install the bolts in the wrong place in the oil pump casing if you put a long one in the wrong place it will jam the tensioner. Also there is a bolt that holds on the timing cover that goes thry from the back side near the water pipe on the drivers side, and one inside the head that is hidden by the distributor and a pool of oil and both are often missed. You will have to drill and tap a motor mount hole for the knock sensor, again see the tech section on LC's site for instructions, the RE doesnt like not having a knock sensor. If you have any other questions, let me know, that's pretty much all you should need to do the swap!

[Full_Tilt_Fud]

hey bigmudtruck, i have another ?. should i just use the stock cam from the 22r or should i put in the re cam or what. I know the durrations are different but i was unsure which way would be the best to go. I really want a aftermarket cam but $$ is really tight.

[BigMudTruk]

Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Fud

hey bigmudtruck, i have another ?. should i just use the stock cam from the 22r or should i put in the re cam or what. I know the durrations are different but i was unsure which way would be the best to go. I really want a aftermarket cam but $$ is really tight.

You mentioned money is tight, then going thru the trouble of swapping one cam from the re-r or vice versa is not for you, the headbolts hold down the rocker shafts on the 22r/re and have to be removed to swap cams, thus you need to change the head gasket at the same time, I'd say any differece would be minimal between the 2, especially for the amt of work involved! Stab a new timing set, oil pump, and adjust the valves, and run the guts out of it!

[Full_Tilt_Fud]

Ok so last night in between school, work, and taking care of my dad in the hospital i finally got a chance to work on my truck. I went to put my intake on and it won't work. if i line up the bolt holes in the plenum's the runners are off, and if i line up the runners the bolts are off. so what now? can i put the re head on the 83 r block? if not what should i do? I can only pu in like two bolts at the most with the runners lined up. any advise would be appreciated.

[John Doe]

A few things to keep in mind....
Marlin Crawlers BBS is a great source for the older trucks and 4runners.

If you want to go with Carb in your swap, I'd sugest adding a Webber Carburetor. supposedly they are a world of diference compaired to Stock I will be getting 1 for my 84 4Runner in the next 2 weeks.

[RedRunnertc]

I had a 22R in my previous truck, and replaced the carb with a Weber 32/36 and it made a HUGE difference. Really easy to tune also.

BTW- avoid the Pacesetter header for this motor. Fought with exhaust leaks constantly, and it's not nearly as well designed, tuned, and built as the Thorley and others.

[Full_Tilt_Fud]

I refuse to be without injection...it's just that simple. when i went to go ahead with this swap i was going off bigmudtruk's advise posted above and from what i could tell he was correct but further inspection proves otherwise. I think that i have found the solution to my problem. the pre 85 22r has a taller block with bigger combustion chambers in the head so the post 85 re head won't work. however it seems that in 83 and 84 some toyota cars got fuel injected 22r's that were the old style tall block and they have the correct bolt pattern for my 85 injection intake so it seems that all i need is the head off of one of those. can anyone confirm this?